These are a few emails from Maisie that are rich in family history. There were a few conversations about where Granny was living at this time or that over the weekend. The first note starts with Granny returning to Harlem after college (then gets very detailed - maybe skip ahead). Then some color commentary on the move from K.C. to Mpls. And some other notes about Collis & Clarence. -- Subject: You asked for it From: Maisie Dethier Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 17:02:37 -0700 To: c_hardenbergh@juno.com Thanksgiving 1906 would have been the 2nd Thanksgiving that Margaret was at home in the rectory of Holy Trinity Church following her graduation from Bryn Mawr. She had thrown herself into the myriad church activities..the "institutional church" as it was sometimes called. They had all kinds of clubs, womens groups, drama, crafts, singing, you name it. Margaret was very active in all those things and a great help to HPN as his wife Alice was already not well. However, Alice did put on many rectory dinners, especially Sunday nights, and the rectory was attached to the church and always welcoming to everyone. (see Victorious Mountaineer by W. Bertrand Stevens). Alice was famous as a hostess, and Margaret helped her immensely. At first I had thought the table cloth at Concordia had come from a Nichols cousins Thanksgiving at Cousin Mary's or something...but those family gatherings were in the 1930s or 20s. I can identify all the names except Esther M. White, who does not seem to be any relation to the Whites of Nichols cousins. She was probably a parishioner or friend of the moment. It would be good to check in HPN's diaries to see if there is mention. Sarah Barney Tearney is somewhat puzzling, but I believe it to be Sara Barney who was great pal of Margaret at that time. She had gone to BMC a bit before MBN but was considered part of Class 1905. She came along with other MBN pals to a post graduation houseparty at Concordia, and went along with the rest of them to the Putnams in Sunapee to continue the party. Sara was again at Concordia in 1907 I believe, and was a good friend of Avis. A New Yorker of social prominence was her brother, Hiram Barney, who was more or less engaged to Avis before A. met Edouard Dethier. Whether the Barneys were Episc. or just because Sara was such a good friend of Margaret I don't know. (Oddly Sara was not among the BMC people kept up with over the years by Avis and Margaret) Eugene H. Benson Sr was a current Curate for HPN at HTC, probably Mary Helen S. Benson was his wife; in any case E. Huntington Benson Jr. was a son and Ann was probably a daughter. Eugene went to Ukiah, CA after being curate at HTC and his children and grandchildren were big in CA...I think doctor, biol., philosp. and the name still is out there. Huntington some years later was a visitor at Concordia (as was George Charles Sumner Bensen) and I had a big crush on Huntington as a kid. HPN always visited them in CA and kept up with the whole family through the years. Sarah A. Shepley was "Aunt Sarah", sister of Stephen Shepley, the father of Alice. She taught school in NYC and lived in tiny apartment where she fed tea and toast cooked in fireplace to Margaret when the latter was at Brearley before going to BMC. Margaret was very fond of her. MBN said she must have followed the stock market because MBN inherited various stocks from her, like GE. Alice S. NIchols of course is wife of HPN, Alice Shepley Nichols. Deaconess Forneret is mentioned in Stevens' book as a major helper in the church activities. Ellen A. Nichols is Hpn's sister who lived in NYC at that time and was very involved in all activities too...games, sewing, costumes, plays etc. Virginia Robinson was a BMC class of '06 or '07, Phila . Quaker friend of Hawkeyes who became good friend of Margaret and AVis and a summer visitor in NH and Blue Hill. She was head of Pa.School Soc Worik for years and knew the Channel Rocks people. I think one time had tea with us when Granny was here in East Blue Hill and maybe talked rocks with David??? I imagine the embroidering of the cloth was a stunt of Ellen Nichols or MBN or both. It really is not exactly a family treasure; I would not recommend framing it! These people were church connected of the moment and came for Thanksgiving, the way people do, when no other family place to go. It is certainly illustrative of the gatherings and doings of the times of HPN< Alice, MBN, Auntie Ellen and Deaconess F. but I think it might as well be used. MNHD Aug 1, 2002 conjectures and some facts. — Subject: Fwd: Collis From: Naniha@aol.com Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:29:21 EST To: jch@jch.com, ggh@jch.com, mlhardenbergh@juno.com, c_hardenbergh@juno.com, 42beach@mymailstation.com, hardenbergh@mail.com 
Thought the rest of you might be interested in Maisie's answer to my query 
about who was Collis's freshman year roommate?

Subject: Collis
From: Maisie Dethier 
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:12:48 -0800
To: naniha@aol.com

Nicky...having trouble with my email computer; will try writing a document
and then transfering it.  In answer to your query by phone about Collis,
room freshman year.I have to tell you that 1929 was a rough year..the stock
market crashed in Sept. and that changed the world and our family.  But we
had left Kansas City to move to Mpls. just as Coggie was going off to
Harvard as a freshman.  I was only 8 yrs. old and did not become a pal of
Coggie's until my early teens.  I was devastated by the move to Mpls. and
was homesick for K.C. and old friends and the life as it had been.  For two
months I had to live with Aunt Agnes at the Lake and attend a little
neighborhood school in the 3rd floor of a Ferndale mansion with Marcy
Phelps and Bambi Rand etc.  I don't know where Estie was, maybe Aunt
Bessie's as she got started at Northrop...all this while mother was trying to
MOVE from K.C. into the Fremont Ave. house AND the job CMH was brought to
in Mpls started falling apart.  I was not cognizant of Collis.
 The only place I can think of to look would be MBNH's diary, other than
Cog's files.  I am pretty sure he did not room with Perry freshman year; in
fact I'm not sure he ever was actually a roomate of Perry's.  I don't know
who "took" him to college, if anyone that freshman year.  I would think
Aunt Elsie would have been involved.  Perhaps Harvard freshmen dorms were
furnished by the college.
 All I remember as an 8 year old when we finally got together as a family
at 1788 Fremont was that Coggie did not write very often and when his
letters were read aloud at d.r. table (as everyones were) my father was
always upset...Coggie wasn't applying himself, poor marks, maybe getting into
minor troubles, not the serious student that CMH had been at MIT.
  Of interest are some notes from MBNH's diary that I took while doing
Concordia By The Decade, or maybe later in answer to an inquiry from you:
 1929  Early May to BMC ...Alice "Patience" and visit NYC.    May 14 "bomb
thrown last night about C considering Mr. Sheffield's Minn. Proposition"
May 20 Telegram from C "It's Minneapolis"  June 16 CMH ends work for
SWMilling.  MBNH "trying to pack for Minn. (3 girls short visit),
Intervale, Marblehead (Al) and England (Collis).  Sept 8 "After a dream
decide to go and call on my husband while he is in Cleveland.  Many wires".
Then she goes to MN to househunt - returning via Soo Line in a week,
meeting Cog on train!"  Oct to MN to put E & M in schools, then to K.C. to
move stuff.
 My notes ended in Nov. "Sophie has accident w. blue china"...that was in
1788 Fremont when glass cabinet fell and broke much of the Salem antique
china.
 When you finish with the H'berghs maybe you should transcribe MBNH's
diaries!
 So there's a trip between high school and college for Collis to England.
Was that the one with the Bensons??
And how interesting that MBNH says "after a dream" !!!

Subject: Re: Collis
From: Maisie Dethier 
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 08:47:47 -0800
To: Naniha@aol.com

After sending you those bits from MBNH 1929 diary I looked again at
Concordia B.D, and 1929 in Intervale was one of THE busiest summers...the
last of that era.  Sumner Benson was definitely one of the  many
visitors...the bicycle leader of the Collis in England Europe summer.  How
MBNH juggled all the goings-on that summer/fall is a miracle.  That dream
must have been in Intervale from whense she went to see CMH in Cleveland.
   Yes, I knew Will Hallowell, Uncle Bill....a sweet man would be my
summation.  Ruled by Aggin I would say.  Sensitive.  I learned to wash his
hair and rub his scalp when I was there, couldn't stand hot water,;  maybe
these helped headaches?  Chain smoker, always bad asthma, had a little
spitoon handy wherever he was.  He taught me to lay fires; he enjoyed
playing any games with me/us.  Very neat like Aggin.  Taught me to eat
melba toast.  His corner by the fireplace in window alcove was his spot
where he sat in black leather (?) armchair and had his wireless and
newspaper and cigars.  He wasn't up to outdoor activity when I knew him but
always insisted on walking up the stone steps from the garage...a terrible
strain on his breathing.  Taught me about feet being warm in just moccasins
with heavy socks in winter (better than boots or galoshes).  
 Have fun! Love Maisie

---- 

On Nov 22, 2006, at 11:37 AM, Mary Dethier wrote:
I don't recommend the opening of this attachment for Dethiers or Clarks and only for avid genealogist or H'bergh history buffs. It's mostly a conversation between Chalmers and Maisie comparing Charles Morgan and Clarence Morgan. Maisie


The following is a long-winded response to a provocative communication from Chalmers who was asking questions and making comparisons between Charles Morgan Hardenbergh b.1833 who came to Mpls. From Hartford and his youngest son Clarence Morgan Hardenbergh, my father b. 1880.  Specifically I am reacting to Chalmers’ opining that Charles Morgan was “quite adventuresome, a mover and shaker” compared to Clarence whom Chalmers labels as “staid” and questions if he was “boring”.  Chalmers wishes he could have talked or reminisced with Clarence but only knew Clarence as someone who “worked” with him.
 There are some facts below, efforts to remember specific illustrations, and much conjecture and opinion.
  Charles lost his mother (in New Brunswick?) at age 12 and his father at age 13 and was partially brought up by an aunt.   This “adventuresome guy” seems to be partially the result of an early upbringing of inevitable independence. By contrast Clarence was surrounded by loving ever present parents and older siblings in a very secure and structured environment.  But couldn’t it be termed adventurous to finish public high school in 3 yrs.(I think) and leave this family and friends atmosphere to go East to M.I.T. to study engineering?
 No question that Clarence was dutiful…. Chalmers says “Charles never went back (East) to care for his family”, but Charles didn’t need to – his siblings were successfully married and raising families in CT. and one brother had become a lumber dealer in MI and Territory of Nebraska.  Charles DID encourage his wife’s family to come to Mpls. and join the clan.
 Back to adventuresome – how about leaving comfortable Mpls. with  wife and two babes to go off to unknown Kansas City MO for new and challenging job??  Unfortunately I’m really ignorant of Clarence’s 18 years in K.C. as far as his business went.  But it seems possible that he might have been a “mover and shaker” (like Charles in Mpls.) in the South Western milling business in K.C. where he was apparently VERY successful and Pres. K.C. Chamber Commerce etc.  Wasn’t he being lured back to Mpls. to a bigger job? (all changed by the 1929 crash)
 “Staid” is defined as sedate or solemn;  conservative and strict, yes, but not “boring”  In K.C. as a very young child I remember him as always with a twinkle and telling me at breakfast he was going off to get a rabbit skin to wrap the baby bunting in.  He acted in plays and Gilbert & Sullivan with Margaret, played tennis as well as bridge, had an early automobile.  I can remember  at one of our many big extended family & friends weekend picnics, his daring one of our young women to jump into the muddy river – probably betting her $10 (?), and she did…much to everyone’s amusement of course.  Lots of fun in our lives when he wasn’t at work.  My older siblings would certainly remember him going to Lake Minnetonka to sail with them in summers.
 Back in Mpls. in 1930: you’re right Chalmers, he was deep into caring for all his extended family members in business and daily lives, from Will Hallowell to Fred, Agnes, Bessie etc.  And pillar of community as you say (Pres. of Wells Memorial, St Barnabas Hosp Bd., St Marks Vestry)
But even in Mpls in WW II could it be a daring mover and shaker to go off to Wash. D.C. bearding those lions in the government to press for….(what? vitamins in the white flour or some such?) and what was he doing business-wise in Buffalo?  I just don’t know enough about his business dealings.
 It’s true, Chalmers, that he did not reminisce the way Granny or even Agnes did.  But he went on being creative – sailboat designs, furnace improvements, making wine…
And to end with a bit of humor: he dared (embarrasedly says Charlie D.) to give granny an Xmas present to open for all to see, a rubber bathmat (acquired at an office party ??) made of women’s breasts!

--

From: "C. Hardenbergh" 
Date: February 23, 2005 6:33:26 PM EST
To: maisie@hypernet.com
Cc: wyndwold@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [wyndwold] Re: family
Reply-To: wyndwold@yahoogroups.com

I talked to Moira for her take on this. She too mentioned that Collis helped G & G out a great deal, and you add Aunt Bessie and Aunt Agnes. This is also true.

However, many people at church have full-time jobs, do great church work, and also work at other things. I think one has the time to do what one wants to do.

Thanks for the additional details about Gramps!  Keeping track of the Aunt Agnes helper a great anecdote. Wish we could find the fellow!

Love Chalmers

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:00:54 -0500 "Maisie Dethier"  writes:

Thanks Chalmers for printing off your email messages for me.  I am now in good shape, fingers crossed, about receiving email, though I do NOT use the internet for other things.  I will definitely work on finding a copy of Shorto's book so strongly recommended by you and Nicky.  I thought I wrote in that AMC book for you.

 Your talk about "doing things for his fellow humans" sent me to my copy of St Marks a hardback black & white book 1953 by a combination of Dorothy Atkinson Rood and the then senior warden Carroll Michener...a history with a slant (aren't they all).  Gramps was very active in support of the settlement house, Welles Memorial, and President of the Board for a time.  St.M. built the settlement house in 1907 when the new ST. Marks was being built on Welles property, having left downtown Mpls.  The settlement house was at Glenwood Ave and N.11th to serve the poor neighborhood with an extraordinary number of activites during its 40 odd years from health clinics to basketball teams to cultural groups..you name it. A cute quote p.104 "The pronounced Finnish tinge in the population  made the bath department extraordinarily popular, ...1915...In the steam baths 8,140 adults and 379 children have been steamed and all impurities washed away.  3,621 adults and 435 children have been tubbed.  The shower bath attendance has not been included, as that goes with the gymnasium..."  (Estie worked at Welles when she was at home in the late 30s) Besides Welles Memorial CMH did many things for fellow humans in Mpls. like (don't ask me for details) some boy who started to work for Agnes at the lake and maybe stole something..Clarence took him on and helped him to see the wrong and followed up with him for years making a successful man out of a troubled little boy.  Similarly CMH looked after individuals in the mills, helping them in their personal lives...CMH was much loved by the individuals who worked for him.  BUT remember this was all after his children grown and he and Granny were rich enough to have help in the kitchen etc. and could use their extra time for good works.  Back in KC when the children were young CMH was not that involved in the community but with his personal family...housing Granny's brother Shep, her brother Don's children, taking care of his own growing family and home.

 What you say about Collis is true,  no PTA etc. BUT his circumstances were quite different as you grew up...they were poor living on an architect's pay, 6 children, trying to build his own house as he dealt with difficult architectural customers (what about the Blake chapel), his poor health AND he spent a GREAT deal of time being kind to his parents and aunts, and as you say, writing and encouraging his children..

 Cheers Maisie

--

Subject: away & memories
From:Maisie Dethier 
Date:Tue, 10 Sep 2002 08:04:44 -0700


I will be out of email touch from Sept 13-24 while Charlie and I visit the
Utah and Puget Sound families.
 I have a memory of seeing Coggie off at the train station in
1938...telling him not to come home until he REALLY wanted to.  He was
depressed and needed to get away.  He had indeed just finished Arch. School
and had won a "First Mention" (highest honors) for his senior design
project BUT he had lost Miriam, his love of that era.  Miriam Bend,
arch.sch. colleague had been his constant companion for several years; she
was at 66 a GREAT deal and I became very fond of her too...very pretty,
very bright and quick with an infectious laugh.  She "turned him down" as
we say; perhaps in favor of the architect she ultimately married, Malcolm
Lean (sp?).  This St. Paul couple ultimately became good friends with
Cognac; but at the time it was a tragedy for Collis and we both knew he
needed to get far away.  I think Wecky (sp), Perry's brother was also part
of the European fluid group.
Moira will be a good source.
                           It was about this era that Perry sent a
telegram proposing to Alee!!  I was alone at 66 with Aunt Bessie I think
parents on a trip; telegram delivered to house for Alee who maybe was in
Chicago???  Anyway I opened it!!
Memories!!    Love from Maisie...